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Subject :I wonder....... 2010-08-31 12:43:18

IronF
....What the Challenge Copenhagen crew would have done if they had been informed in time that the water conditions was not suited for swimming ??? Would they cancel the race ? The swim ? 500 athletes got sick the week after the event !!! Was it irresponsible to let the athletes swim in Amager Strandpark that morning ??
The sewers were flooded because of all the rain the day/night before raceday.

Another thing : Should they change the bike course for next years race ? 70% of the athletes had 1 or more flats during the 180km - that's alot. Of course the massive rain did not make the conditions better, but I guess that the flats mainly occured on the smaller roads and not during the first 40 km up along the coast.
A little rain in the middle of August is not uncommon in Denmark, so perhaps next years race should have another bike course to avoid all the flats ?
I think that even if only 30% of the athletes had 1 or more flats it still would be too many ! What do you think ?

Anyway, you can't blame the Challenge Copenhagen crew for the rain
- great race, see you next year !
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Subject :Re:I wonder....... 2010-09-01 08:10:05

ThomasRohde
Interesting !

What is the source of these figures ?
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Subject :Re:I wonder....... 2010-09-01 09:46:57

IronF
It was written in several danish newspapers that 500 athletes got sick after swimming in Amager Strandpark at the Challenge Copenhagen.

I received a mail from Magic-Sportfood.de, who were one of the exhibitors on the expo, that mentioned that 70% of the athletes had 1 or more flats !
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Subject :Re:I wonder....... 2010-09-01 11:27:49

KMD Challenge
Hi Iron F

Interesting comments :-)

To take it from the top. Next year we will be in closer dialogue with authorities regarding water quality so we get the results in time to be able to react. The water quality can change in a few hundred meters and the difference between the lagoon and the open water can for example be quite substantial.

Therefore we are working on a solution to be able to move the swim from the lagoon to the open waters in a short time.

A meassure from 01.00 Sunday night showed that the quality was fine at that time.

The number 500 is not documented. We do not know how many has had problems. "Statens Serum Institut" is currently doing an examination of who, how many and what caused the stomach issues. Is it all because of the water or can it be related to other things as well.

All the flats: No doubt that you are in greater risk of flats racing in Denmark. We have the flint stones and it is therefore something you as an athlete has to relate to - but what happened during Challenge Copenhagen this year was extreme. All the water washed stones out into the roads making it a paradise for flats. In a normal August shower this is not the case.

Next year we will upgrade the aid stations with tires and tubes as well.

The number 70 % is also not documented and remember that Magic Sportsfood most of all wish to sell new tires...

We will not change the bike course - it is impossible to avoid these small roads in Denmark.

All the best

Challenge Copenhagen
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Subject :Re:I wonder....... 2010-09-01 16:14:32

TIP
Hi Iron F,

Actually I'd like to reverse the question and ask you if you had proceeded with the swim had Challenge Copenehagen announced that swimming was at peoples own risk?

I would! And I think a lot of people are actually happy that the organization didn't cancel the race (or the swim part) because of the bad water quality.

And yes I did get sick, throwing up on the bike and not getting any energy in on the last 70km of the bike course. On the run I was a frequent guest at the toilets - however about ½ way through the run I guess my system was cleaned and the energy I took in also stayed in 8)

Regarding the bike course and the number of flats. I live right next to the northern part of of the bike course and as such have been using it as my main training course. I have been riding it a couple of times a week ever since possible after winter, in all kinds of weather and in all my trainin and on the 15th of August I didn't get a single flat. Maybe it's beacuse I'm very carefull of where I position my wheels, always reading the road and looking out for debri, maybe it's because I've chosen robust tires with high puncture resistance versus lighter ones with low roll resistance or maybe I'm just pure lucky. I don't know.

I do however know that the roads were swept clean of debri etc. about a week before the race - so Challenge Copenhagen had been out there trying to make it as good as possible.

All triathlons are different. Some are in cold weather some ine hot. Some have swim courses with current, waves and even run sections in shallow water and some have bike and run courses that are really tough with steep hills, winds etc. It all takes different preparations and adjustments to your equipment and that's one of the great things about this sport!

/TIP
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Subject :Re:I wonder....... 2010-09-01 19:13:40

Kølling
Nobody asked me, if I had a flat tire or got sick after the swim. My guess is, that I´m not the only one, so how can these numbers be accurate?

Just a thought...
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Subject :Re:I wonder....... 2010-09-02 06:43:32

IronF
Hi all, thanks for your comments

To Challenge Copenhagen : The solution about moving the swim in ”worst case senario” for next years race is very good……always have a plan B !!

500 got sick and 70% of the athletes had one or more flats ???……….well as I wrote, I had these numbers from newspapers / Magic Sport Food……….

And you are absolutely right . What happened during Challenge Copenhagen this year was extreme !!

To TIP : Participating in any triathlon event is always at the athletes own risk, but anyway :
If they had informed us before start that the quality of the water was bad and not suited for swimming what would I have done ….. that’s a very good question…..I would like to know, before start, what the consequences could be if I choosed to swim in the sewer (sorry !!)
Most likely I would have jumped in water, just like you would……..it takes a lot to stop a very motivated triathlete that have been training for an event for several months!!! And for the record : I did not get sick after the swim

Regarding the flats : I have spoken to a lot of the competitors from the event, and not one of them got through the bike without at least one flat. I have read a lot of race reports from the pros and all of them mention one or more flats : Jimmy Johnsen, Martin Jensen, Lisbeth Kristensen, Alexander Markovich…….

I do absolutely not blame Challenge Copenhagen for the extreme weather conditions and all the flats. I just feel very pity for the competitors that DNF because of 2-3-4-5 flats !!. As I recall it 280- 290 athletes DNF, but only about 40-50 of these dropped out of the event during the run !!
So a lot of competitors did not even reach T2. In Ironman the majority of DNF happens during the run - in normal conditions that is ! I guess Challenge Copenhagen can confirm / correct these numbers if I’m wrong here.

I’ve been in the sport for +10 years and I’ve been competing in a lot of different conditions. But according the weather forecast in the days before the race all the rain Saturday / Saturday night should have been in Sweden and not in Copenhagen, so it was hard to prepare for theese conditions !

To Kølling : 500 got sick and 70% of the athletes had one or more flats ???……….well as I wrote, I had these numbers from newspapers / Magic Sport Food……….

To all : No one has answered my questions from the first post :

I wonder…....What the Challenge Copenhagen crew would have done if they had been informed in time that the water conditions was not suited for swimming ??? Would they cancel the race ? The swim ? 500 athletes got sick the week after the event !!! Was it irresponsible to let the athletes swim in Amager Strandpark that morning ??
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Subject :Re:I wonder....... 2010-09-02 10:50:03

ThomasRohde
I think the reply that CC has supplied to the questions on this thread is absolutely adequate and sufficient.

Hypothesis-based thinking about what CC would have done IF they knew about water quality, is unnecessary a this point.
They did NOT know - and hence, had no chance to react. Then that not at all irresponsible from my point of view.

Believe most participants would have raced, given the option to "race at own risk" - I would for sure. A back-up plan to move the swim course sounds fantastic. Good to know that the bike circuit will not be changed - it´s part of what makes CC epic, it´s beautiful, challenging and fast. I wonder how many other IM distance races puts down such an effort to ensure a great race circuit.

For any IM race you need to prepare differently - apparently racing bikes in the north of Zealand, you´d bring an extra tube and practice your flat-tire-routine :P

As for the figures, as Kølling outlines, they do not seem to have any real or sufficient statistical substance to be taken serious. If you want to - wait for SSI to publish their results - but by the end of the day, will the result make us happier now?

Thanks - Thomas
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Subject :Re:I wonder....... 2010-09-02 12:18:38

KMD Challenge
If we had the test results in a decent time prior to the race we would have informed athletes of the risk.

We do think this is a great discussion and pin points some of the many elements you have to be aware of when organizing a race. But on Sunday morning the water quality were not top of mind since the rain forced us to rethink quite a lot of the two years of preparations we had put into the race.

For example
  • The buoys where all over the place on Saturday before the race because the current were stronger than ever
  • Five hours before the race when we went to bed we did not know if it was actually possible to use the roads because of the water. We saw a map of the flooded areas this week and it is pure luck that no part of the race course had more than 20 cm water. Many places the water was more than a meter deep.
  • During the late hours of Saturday we had to rethink both T1 and T2 in terms of handling the bags
  • The run course could not be prepared in advance because of the heavy rain
  • etc.

So in many ways we were out in plan c,d,e,f and g... :-)

All the best

Challenge Copenhagen
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Subject :Re:I wonder....... 2010-09-02 17:36:41

ITri
I took part in the race on the 15th and knew straight away that there was something wrong with the water, it just tasted horrible. Subsequently a week after the race I was just beginning to get over a sick stomach.

So how do I feel about it? Well first of all i can tell you that if i had been told about the low quality of the water before the start I still would have gone right ahead and swam it anyway, why? Because I trained for an entire year to prepare for this race and excuse the pun but sh*t happens and you just put your head down and get on with it. I think the organisers did a cracking job of running this race especially when you consider the extreme and uncharacteristic weather the night before.

Poor water quality was just bad luck - this is an "Iron Distance event" not a "fluffy distance event" so again you just manage what you can and after that stop worrying and just work harder.

I'd like to say well done Challenege Copenhagen great race my only sore point was the lack of T-shirts at the end.

One final question:

Challenge I wonder: What would you have done if a herd of elephants had escaped from Copenhagen Zoo and were charging through the run course? Do you have tranqueliser rifles for that set of circumstances, and more importantly.. would you have used them?;D

there's a line where things are reasonable...
Last Edited On: 2010-09-02 17:42:43 By ITri for the Reason
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Subject :Re:I wonder....... 2010-09-02 19:05:13

Londoner

Guest
The statistics about sick stomachs and flat tires seem pretty questionable. I was lucky enough to avoid both, and think that the post race questionnaire I filled out didn't ask for either. But I do feel sorry for anyone who suffered from these.
I found that the very calm water and the fact that the start groups were moderately sized made it pretty easy not to swallow any water.
I did see lots of athletes on the road side with flat tires (and I bet that the vast majority of them could have done without that added 'epic'), so I'd definitely hope for more tire-friendly conditions next year. On the other hand, the choice of tires is probably important too. With somewhat robust tires (which I also don't inflate to 10 bars) I've had only one flat in the last 3 years (but I'm also a fair weather cyclist...)
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Subject :Re:I wonder....... 2010-09-03 09:21:06

JHA

Guest
Interesting points for discussion, but I also crave for some stats to verify/dismiss these issues.

However, my notes:

Like TIP I live and train by both the CC route and adjacent roads year round. I do have flats, but have not noticed a higher quantity of flats riding the CC route compared to other roads (including main roads only). I write down my flats for study.

What I have noticed is that on Danish roads you do have a relatively high risk of flats compared to other roads I have raced or trained. But I have also noted that flats tend to get worse with rain (nothing you can do about that) and choice and wear of tires used (i.e. put your thoughts here).

I always race (priority races) with new tires and have never flatted in a race, but often my worn tires gets flats - and the rate appears to be increasing with tire wear. No real science here, just thoughts for race prep next year :)

I have never flatted more than once on a training ride, so I am only speculating here: With flint stones you need to extra careful to remove the stone from the tire when fixing a flat. I wonder how many of the DNF's caused by more than two flats (always prepare for two flats; more than that is reeeeally bad luck) was a result of multiple flats from the same hole/stone/piece of glass?

That said I also sensed a more than usual number of flats along the route. So the above is just for thoughts you may wish to consider before racing next year.

Nonetheless, I would of course also welcome a guaranteed flat free route next year! :-) But the current route will also do.

Also, I try not to drink the water when swimming ;-)

/Jonas (with no flats and only the normal iron stomach after the event)
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Subject :flat tires.. 2010-09-06 10:00:38

yaq

Guest
At first - very nice race.
I was very surprised to see so many guys changing the tires on the bike course too and I do not think the route was as terribe damaged. I have been on the race where the road was worst and did not happend this to so many racers. After my coach told me that this is most probably because of the rain (and it looked it will be raining all the race day) and most of the racers were scared to fill up the tires as normaly to be more stable on the wet surface but there is a much higher risk to cut the tire on some crack on the road. Looks for me rational - my tires were filled by air to the max and did not get flats.
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Subject :Re:I wonder....... 2010-09-06 19:58:43

839209
First, like so many others: Thank you CC for a fantastic experience. I'm already signed up for 2011.

If possible, I would have liked to know about the water quality, so I could have tried to drink less during the swim. (It was actually not very salty for some reason, so you could actually drink it :-3 ). But it would have made me absolutely furious, had somebody tried to prevent me from jumping into the water. And if the choice was between cancelling the race or pretending to know nothing, I'm very happy with the choice made! Yes, I know: You did'n knew anything... O:)

I ride with kevlar and low pressure and experience flat tires very rarely, but to avoid the rolling hills and the less charming "Kongevejen", I would have like the bike-route to be 2 or 3 times up and down the "Strandvejen". Besides avoiding some flat tires, it would make the route faster, although less scenic I guess. Also, it would have been more interesting for the spectators, and made it possible with more energy-stations. If you are allowed to close the Standvejen in both directions for such a long period, it would also create less traffic-problems for the locals.

What do you guys think about 2-3 times Strandvejen instead? Would it be too boring?

See you 14-Aug-2011
Peter
Last Edited On: 2010-09-06 21:47:16 By 839209 for the Reason
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